Ness character discussion

Ness bthrow kill %. Lol Ladies and little mac tier.

http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2k02tg/nesss_backthrow_kill_percents_for_each_character/

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10/23/2014 04:14:10

Would be nice if that Dair spike update patch thing was real

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10/28/2014 08:59:11

I like Ness custom neutral b that goes straight up. Is fun after uthrow.

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10/28/2014 09:16:41

I've only unlocked 2 customs
I now know why Lucas is not in this game

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10/28/2014 09:33:06

Emery said:
I've only unlocked 2 customs
I now know why Lucas is not in this game

bc ness other customs are lucas specials? :O

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10/28/2014 10:42:42

Your good *hi fives*

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10/28/2014 10:46:52

yaaaay *hi fives back*

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10/28/2014 10:51:42

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11/05/2014 02:31:37

That recovery

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11/05/2014 02:37:13

I saw thay guy once beat Zero over wifi. LololOK

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11/05/2014 02:43:58

Who is Zero?

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11/05/2014 06:35:19

He's the guy that game first at that nintendo smash demo tourney promotion direct place thing.

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11/05/2014 06:48:30

Emery is now the owner of this thread.

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11/06/2014 14:09:46

Did Nintendo touch the boy?

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11/19/2014 05:56:25

dthrow does less damage.

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11/19/2014 06:08:28

Couldn't do anything off Dthrow anyway.

Only at low % and if a plat was there.

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11/19/2014 06:20:35

This is actually quite funny. V's done a similar thing to me before with Ness where I claimed a stock, but only once haha

http://gfycat.com/PepperyVapidFinch

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01/07/2015 21:35:58

Uses of PK Flash: When and Where?

Disclaimer: PK Flash is NOT an amazing move. I won't call it good either. However I will not call it useless.

Ness's PK Flash has always been a very rarely used move, and for a good reason. Its slow speed, low mobility and long charging time (to get the full move) has always hindered its viability.
Which in hindsight also made for really hilarious moments if you ever killed someone with it.

Yet Ness mains must remember that it holds unrivaled priority. Bowser's Bowser Bomb won't go through it. Ike's Aether won't go through it.
Heck, even another Ness's PK Thunder 2 won't go through it.

It also is, hands down, Ness's most powerful attack, up there with the likes of PK Thunder 2.

These points however do not grant you permission to mindlessly spam PK Flash. I will try to go over (hopefully) some of the uses of PK Flash and its properties so that if the time is right, perhaps PK Flash might just be the option you use.

Properties of PK Flash
- PK Flash IS an energy projectile, so it can be absorbed by PSI Magnet AND reflected. If it's reflected near you, you WILL get hit and possibly die very early, so be careful!
- Just like PK Thunder, Ness will stop using PK Flash if he gets interrupted. He also goes into helpless state if used in the air.
- The fully charged PK Flash actually stoops below the stage slightly so for maximum power you'd want to jump then immediately PK Flash afterwards to get the full effect. This will probably be rarely used however.
- As you charge it more, its range slightly increases.

When/Where do I use PK Flash?

1. Use it to defend against people coming from above

This is probably the main use of PK Flash. No aerial will go through it.
I repeat, no aerial will beat it out.
If you're up against a Yoshi or Lucario who love dairing you from above, try PK Flash. It's safer than trying to trade with up air and if you're fast enough you can chain an aerial as they're still recoiling from it. Nothing more satisfying than landing PK Flash>Fair, Fair and Fair.

It's worth remembering that you do not need to fully charge the PK Flash, and I advise against doing so. An uncharged PK Flash does the job just fine.

2. Pressure people on platforms

If you know your opponent loves to fast-fall onto a platform or you know where they are going to land, PK Flash the platform. It punishes spot dodges, and if your opponent is stupid enough to shield, why not charge just a little bit more?
You can guarantee that their shield's not going to like the damage, if it hasn't already been broken.

3. Condition recovery

This really only applies if your opponent has a very predictable recovery (e.g. Mac, Ganon, Falcon, Mario etc.). Plopping a PK Flash just near the edge means your opponent must either a) delay their recovery (and die) or b) go for the edge anyway and hope to get the edge before PK Flash detonates.
This offers a safer alternative than dropping down and trying to gimp with aerials.

Those three uses of PK Flash make it a decent option for those respective situations. However it must be reinforced that PK Flash should not be frequently used as much as, say, PK Fire. It is an option, and I'm just listing some of the situations where PK Flash would be viable.

I also advise against using PK Flash as a main option. Remember that this is still a very mediocre move, and that's putting it lightly.

Also be very wary of using PK Flash against opponents with counters such as Shulk, Marth, Palutena etc.

I'll end with a Ness PK Flash ledge option:

If you jump off the ledge and immediately input PK Flash Ness will never jump and land while doing PK Flash. Very useful for catching opponents in the air offguard.

Hope this is useful and thanks for reading.

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01/25/2015 10:51:16

I've been using a bit of Ness recently, and would like the opinion of a more experienced Ness player. He seems to really struggle when he has to approach, but that's probably just me.

How do you go about approaching Luigi? In general, what are Ness's approach options? Peopl talk about SH Fair or FH Fair but it loses to lots of moves and is easily punishable.

I noted that with good DI you can often break out of Luigi's combos with Nair. Out of Dthrow you can usually DI up and over Luigi's head and the SH double Fair seems to miss a lot.

Also, if Luigi goes for the Dthrow to Down B at mid %, you can DI down and actually tech it and punish the Down B. I was doing this consistently offline today and did it 4 times in a row.

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01/25/2015 10:31:08

Also don't use PK Flash vs characters with counters

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01/25/2015 10:37:11

Aerodrome said:
Also don't use PK Flash vs characters with counters

Very true. I'll have to add that.

@ Jezmo:
SH Fair is a decent approach but SH nair is also pretty good as well. It comes out faster and is great for punishing spot dodges.

I find that sometimes running in and dash grabbing, as stupid as that might sound, works. Sometimes only though.

You want to be patient when you're in mid range from the opponent as the only mid range option you have is PK Fire, which is punishable. SHFF no aerial on the spot is really good for baiting out shields/spot dodges.

Also a personal favourite of mine, SH in, Rising Nair back. Ness's DJ keeps him safe but that all depends on how you land as well.
This can also work with fair.
SH fair in, Rising nair back/forward.

Also try just running past your opponent and then pivot PK Fire. It catches a LOT of people offguard.

Hope that helps.

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01/25/2015 10:50:07

Will add PK Flash things to OP later

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01/25/2015 11:55:50

PK Thunder: Ness's Best Friend
(Note: I will be referring to the 'Ness missile' as PK Thunder 2)

PK Thunder is (in)famous for many, many reasons. It is probably the most versatile projectile in the game, having many many uses and the best control out of any projectile. It also is one of the most 'gimp-able' recoveries in the game as one can just soak up the hit and send Ness plummeting to his doom. Certain characters, such as Villager or Mr. Game & Watch, take this a step further with moves like Pocket for Bucket.

Before we get into its uses, let's start with its properties:

Properties of PK Thunder

- PK Thunder is comprised of the head and the tail

This is a very important note, so please remember this! The tail of the PK Thunder has a unique sort of priority and does NOT interact with hitboxes, only hurtboxes. This means that PK Thunder will NOT disappear if something hits its tail. Gimping with this is not as hard as you think.
On the other hand, hitting anyone with the head of PK Thunder will make it disappear. Also you cannot hit Ness with the tail to send him flying.

- PK Thunder, as it should be, IS an energy projectile. Another Ness can absorb it, as well as Rosalina, Mii Gunner, Villager etc.

- PK Thunder stops Ness's momentum (some exceptions), so if you use it in the air, you'll pause for a bit. You'll also get sent into helpless if PK Thunder hits a platform/the ground, it gets stolen or it reaches the end of its range.

- Ness CANNOT do anything while using PK Thunder so be very wary of your position when you use it.

- During the initial moment when the PK Thunder first comes out, it is invulnerable so you do not have to worry about people gimping you by staying right on top of you. This is also key to one of the uses of PK Thunder.

- When you hit the opponent with PK Thunder, the direction they fly is the same direction you hit them with the head (e.g. you hit them on the left side, they will fly left)

Uses of PK Thunder and How
Because of how useful PK Thunder is, I encourage everyone to be creative with how you use it. These are just some of the uses. Don't limit yourself!

1. Recovery
Self-explanatory.

2. Juggling

Juggling with PK Thunder does not just involve sniping your opponent with PK Thunder. It involves trapping the opponent with both the head AND the tail.
Instead of sending the thunder directly at the opponent, why not get more hits in by curling the tail around the opponent as they fall? They cannot cancel the tail, even with specials like Yoshi's Yoshi Bomb. Even reflectors will not reflect the tail.
What's more, you can hit them with the head of PK Thunder when it's about to expire and then rinse and repeat. At least, until they get to the ground.
Remember that the direction your opponent is struck with by the head of the PK Thunder is the direction they'll fly afterwards. Do you want to drag your opponent in for an up air kill? Or do you want them to fly away from the stage to try another Thunder?

If at any time you feel threatened, there's nothing stopping you from guiding the PK Thunder back to yourself to do PK Thunder 2. In fact, you might even get a KO with it!

Just be aware of where you are. Do not go shooting off the ledge.

3. Edgeguarding

As said before, the tail of PK Thunder has great priority and cannot be canceled. This makes it great for setting up walls underneath the stage so your opponent cannot recover. This is especially useful against characters like Olimar and R.O.B, who rely on the stamina of their respective recoveries, or Fox and Falcon, who both fall faster than most of the cast.

For a basic idea, you'd want to guide the PK Thunder head just beside the opponent, but not into him/her. The tail should form a barrier than the opponent cannot jump or recover through. As you can literally guide PK Thunder wherever you want, the same applies to your 'wall'.

3.5. Limiting Ledge Options

Because PK Thunder stays out for a long time, you can snake it around the edge to punish the opponent for potentially all and any of their options.

To elaborate:

Normal Getup/Getup Attack/Jump/Aerial onto Stage
The active frames of the PK Thunder, both the tail and head, will hit them.

Roll
If you see them rolling behind you then why not just let PK Thunder come back and... BAM!

Let go
This is very risky as you can hit them with the PK Thunder for a potential stage spike or if you PK Thunder runs out and you can just dtilt near the edge, or even better, hit them with the down-smash. If you're feeling gutsy, try a dair maybe.

This requires very good control over PK Thunder and I recommend you test this out in training/against CPUs before you try it against human players. If you mistime/position the thunder poorly you WILL get punished.

4. Punishing opponents coming down from the air

This used to be an AT back then in brawl but because of the invulnerability of PK Thunder during its early start in Smash 4, it's easier than ever to perform.

Simply put, if your opponent is coming down on top of you, and you PK Thunder as if to recover, the tail will hit the opponent and lock them in hitstun as you PK Thunder 2, colliding with them to possibly KO them. This is a bit difficult to picture, but I'll try and upload a video showing it when I can.

This can also be used straight after your last fair from your most recent dthrow at lower percents. If you're good with how to snake PK Thunder around it should be relatively safe, but that of course depends on the character.

5. Edge Thunder

If there's an opponent on the edge looking to gimp you or punish you trying to land back on stage, why not shoot the PK Thunder at them? If you do it so that you are right next to the edge Ness will immediately latch onto it and be completely safe.

In basic terms, as you're about to grab the ledge, PK Thunder and guide it into your opponent, or at least into the ground beside you. If it doesn't cancel fast enough, you can SD, so be careful!

Because you are almost always guaranteed to send the opponent over you with the PK Thunder hit, you can sometimes follow up with an aerial and get some free damage in. This only applies to certain angles of the PK Thunder hit though.

It's not a good idea to do this as a regrab as you have no invincibility and if the opponent shields the Thunder they will most likely punish you.

(Those are the main uses I can think of off my head. If anyone has any more feel free to share!)

PK Thunder serves many, many uses, and is a very big part of Ness's game. You MUST master this move if you wish to do well as Ness.

I will end with a vital technique to recovering:

Double PK Thunder 2

Yes, you read that right, Ness can use PK Thunder 2 twice if he slams into a wall with his first PK Thunder 2. This is absolutely crucial for recovery on stages with slanted edges, especially Battlefield and FD.

To do this, when you slam into the wall, immediately input another PK Thunder. If done right the thunder should come out like normal but Ness will still carry the momentum of the slam, so you must be prepared to angle him well. This definitely requires practice and I recommend going to FD/any Omega stage in training and doing this until it's second nature.

An interesting note is that the window to perform another PK Thunder isn't that small. You can wait a little and then do it, but you gotta make sure Ness doesn't go into helpless before you do it.

And sorry to say guys, but this can only be performed twice. You can't perform it any more times after that and Ness will just go into helpless.

Well that's it for a bit of PK Thunder knowledge. Hope this helps the other Ness mains.

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02/14/2015 10:21:09