Diddy Kong definitely
10/21/2015 10:13:09
Just wondering what other people think about who is the worst character in Smash 4. I'd probably have to say some of the worst are Zelda, Samus, maybe Mewtwo; I can't decide which one.
cAKE 10/21/2015 09:56:36
cAKE 10/21/2015 09:56:36
MrL said:Probably the most nerfed character.
Diddy Kong definitely
10/21/2015 11:01:58
1111 mii gunner is bad samus, who is a bad character.
10/21/2015 15:35:42
10/21/2015 19:23:11
I heard Lucario was pretty shit. Lel kek.
10/21/2015 23:37:19
10/21/2015 23:37:19
Probably Zelda. I don't think Mewtwo is as bad as people say he is .
10/22/2015 02:06:12
10/22/2015 02:06:12
I think Samus is a lot better since the last patch and there's some really interesting things she can do such as shield break set ups. Ganons nair is pretty good too since the last patch but he still has an awful time in the neutral. Doc is a lot better than people think, he has pretty good frame data and decent moves, but Mario is just better. IMO the worst characters are either Zelda or Mewtwo and Ganon. Mewtwo struggles mainly because of his awful frame data combined with her huge hurtbox with poor OoS options. That being said, if you put time into any character you can do well at any local tourney.
10/22/2015 08:53:51
10/22/2015 08:53:51
Ganon, Samus and Zelda are all equally worthless. They're way below the rest of the cast.
Don't play them.
10/22/2015 05:16:42
Don't play them.
10/22/2015 05:16:42
I should have expected seeing Zelda's name here but it still hurts.
10/22/2015 06:17:16
10/22/2015 06:17:16
I'd go with mewtwo. He'd be middle tier, maybe, if all of his shit worked. But none of it does.
10/22/2015 06:30:45
10/22/2015 06:30:45
no mention of jigglypuff? feels like that character is irredeemable cause she loses hard to general defensive play even with pound but if youre good enough i guess you can get some wins on aggro players from a couple rest reads,
mewtwo is rated strangely high in japan so i wouldnt count out the ability for people to put work in with him. i think its a tossup between zelda or jiggs personally.
10/22/2015 06:52:54
mewtwo is rated strangely high in japan so i wouldnt count out the ability for people to put work in with him. i think its a tossup between zelda or jiggs personally.
10/22/2015 06:52:54
It's probably R.O.B. to be honest. Character doesn't even have its own game.
10/22/2015 07:11:25
10/22/2015 07:11:25
Umbrella said:
I should have expected seeing Zelda's name here but it still hurts.
I don't think playing a bad character is such a bad thing. if anything I feel playing low tier characters takes a lot of effort, beating those who play better characters. Still, it feels bad when someone says your character is the "worst" or "bad" :(
10/22/2015 07:57:51
Zelda is just a really poorly designed character, everything about her is inconsistent.
Her design is "be a defensive wall" which is supposed to justify her terrible ground speed and mediocre air speed, but then they're like, "lets give Zelda a whole bunch of things that don't mesh well together!"
Things a wall-like character would like:
- Combobreaker
- Good OoS options
- A Grab
- High range forward and back aerials for spacing
- Some way to force an approach from the opponent
Zelda has NONE of these.
- Fastest aerial is nair (frame 7 I think) and doesn't cover the area at her feet
- Fastest OoS option is up B at 8 frames, and grab at an abysmal 10 frames. Her jumpsquat is frame 6 so she can't even jump OoS properly.
- Grab frame data is among the worst in the game and is still outranged by characters like Bowser and Charizard, who have faster grabs and better throws.
- Lightning Kicks have been worthless since Brawl. She could keep her back air but there's no reason for her to not have a forward air like Ness's for spacing.
- She can't force an approach with Din's or Phantom
Literally why does Zelda exist in this game? They should have scrapped her Melee design and made a proper moveset. She doesn't fit any kind of character archetype, she just kinda... has moves.
That said, I don't think she's worse than either Samus or even someone like Charizard.
10/22/2015 08:09:26
Her design is "be a defensive wall" which is supposed to justify her terrible ground speed and mediocre air speed, but then they're like, "lets give Zelda a whole bunch of things that don't mesh well together!"
Things a wall-like character would like:
- Combobreaker
- Good OoS options
- A Grab
- High range forward and back aerials for spacing
- Some way to force an approach from the opponent
Zelda has NONE of these.
- Fastest aerial is nair (frame 7 I think) and doesn't cover the area at her feet
- Fastest OoS option is up B at 8 frames, and grab at an abysmal 10 frames. Her jumpsquat is frame 6 so she can't even jump OoS properly.
- Grab frame data is among the worst in the game and is still outranged by characters like Bowser and Charizard, who have faster grabs and better throws.
- Lightning Kicks have been worthless since Brawl. She could keep her back air but there's no reason for her to not have a forward air like Ness's for spacing.
- She can't force an approach with Din's or Phantom
Literally why does Zelda exist in this game? They should have scrapped her Melee design and made a proper moveset. She doesn't fit any kind of character archetype, she just kinda... has moves.
That said, I don't think she's worse than either Samus or even someone like Charizard.
10/22/2015 08:09:26
Extra said:
no mention of jigglypuff? feels like that character is irredeemable cause she loses hard to general defensive play even with pound but if youre good enough i guess you can get some wins on aggro players from a couple rest reads,
mewtwo is rated strangely high in japan so i wouldnt count out the ability for people to put work in with him. i think its a tossup between zelda or jiggs personally.
You havent been to QLD have you?
10/22/2015 10:48:33
if queensland is losing to a jigglypuff then something is seriously wrong with you guys
10/22/2015 10:55:52
10/22/2015 10:55:52
Don't listen to Flex. No one here is losing to Jigglypuff.
There's a good Jigglypuff player here though, they pretty much never miss Rest, which is impressive.
Jigglypuff as a character isn't bad, but similar to why Mewtwo is absolutely garbage in that it's too light for a game with Rage.
Rage literally kills Jigglypuff/Mewtwo/G&W's viability.
It's definitely not a coincidence that Game & Watch and Mewtwo are equally as bad as Jiggs lol and I think weight is the main reason for it.
10/22/2015 11:41:07
There's a good Jigglypuff player here though, they pretty much never miss Rest, which is impressive.
Jigglypuff as a character isn't bad, but similar to why Mewtwo is absolutely garbage in that it's too light for a game with Rage.
Rage literally kills Jigglypuff/Mewtwo/G&W's viability.
It's definitely not a coincidence that Game & Watch and Mewtwo are equally as bad as Jiggs lol and I think weight is the main reason for it.
10/22/2015 11:41:07
the thing about mewtwo and g&w is that they have some legitimate strengths to make up for their huge weaknesses which is more than can be said for puff
10/22/2015 12:13:58
10/22/2015 12:13:58
Jiggs has an ungimpable recovery, a move that does 80% of a shield, and a move that KOs at 50%
Mewtwo has like
a safe down smash
G&W has like
dash attack
10/22/2015 12:28:04
Mewtwo has like
a safe down smash
G&W has like
dash attack
10/22/2015 12:28:04
feel free to call me biased but i dont think g&w is as nearly as bad as jigglypuff. doesnt straight up lose to rolls cause of his amazing dash attack and can actually threaten something with his grabs, as well as having invincible up smash as a defensive option to offset his glass cannon status. dont think mewtwo is as bad either cause he has more than one move that is actually threatening.
10/22/2015 12:29:17
10/22/2015 12:29:17
It's funny you say that because pound also beats rolls and shields too!
Which is more than can be said for dash attack; the character.
10/22/2015 12:30:36
Which is more than can be said for dash attack; the character.
10/22/2015 12:30:36
also, from what i know pound does 60% of shield and considering jiggs otherwise non threatening aerials i never break shields with it when i play jiggs and i dont ever see it breaking shields otherwise. you can just run away for 5 seconds and her side B is no longer a threat to your shield.
10/22/2015 12:30:58
10/22/2015 12:30:58
Pound is 11.55 +20 which is about 77% of a shield's max HP. Any form of shield pressure before pound will break the shield completely.
10/22/2015 12:36:38
10/22/2015 12:36:38
fair enough, forgive me for being confused seeing as i never see it break shields in videos or when i play jiggs. still maintain that shielding / rolling backwards against her is close to invalidating especially considering even if you do roll, pound will almost never KO beyond really high percents so i don't ever see it as a threat.
10/22/2015 12:46:51
10/22/2015 12:46:51
classic pazX opinion here we go incoming shitfight
10/22/2015 13:05:12
10/22/2015 13:05:12