Oh yeet lemme grab discord links
02/16/2019 03:58:02
GGS everyone
02/16/2019 03:58:15
02/16/2019 03:58:15
Mafia discord: https://discord.gg/eEZEXtu
Mason discord (lmao): https://discord.gg/T2Ptfvq
Mentor discord: https://discord.gg/hUJCS7B
Spectator discord (talk in here yeet): https://discord.gg/Czfu4fb
Spreadsheet of everything: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1oDqvQFQuJ_5iGvLv2zntozg2s19jJjrqireCs_wIeKU/edit?usp=drivesdk
02/16/2019 04:01:10
Mason discord (lmao): https://discord.gg/T2Ptfvq
Mentor discord: https://discord.gg/hUJCS7B
Spectator discord (talk in here yeet): https://discord.gg/Czfu4fb
Spreadsheet of everything: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1oDqvQFQuJ_5iGvLv2zntozg2s19jJjrqireCs_wIeKU/edit?usp=drivesdk
02/16/2019 04:01:10
I blame mafia
02/16/2019 04:01:44
02/16/2019 04:01:44
Sorry I wasn't active, but good job guys, Tbh had my bets on bijou bamboozling us
02/16/2019 04:06:12
02/16/2019 04:06:12
hypers
02/16/2019 04:17:13
02/16/2019 04:17:13
I think that if you're including Jesters, faction-changing abilities or role madness this heavy you should advertise the game as such.
If Duon won't play if he's not a vengeful jester then... don't put him in the game. DON'T create the role and assign it to him - non-random role assignments are a big no-no and has happened in two of Rhyno's games now.
The set-up needed a bit more review beforehand to set out how the roles would function. I shouldn't be dead and then be asked "what happens if a mason gets vanillarised", this should be established beforehand.
Also feel that there should have been more checks for potentially ABSURDLY broken combinations, including faction-changing Innocent Child / death-confirmed Mason / unlimited-shot Governor. Luckily none of this came into play. I'm not sure why Invisi was told the results of his vanillarisation actions and surprised town didn't ask him why either.
I also feel as though town had too many incredibly strong power roles. Out of the thirteen townies, the only negative utility was Extra's Princess but even that only activated from lynching and it's hard to get a mason lynched. Governor SHOULD be neutral-at-worst utility but JEANS goofed. Sensor, Watcher (especially in a game with Lightning Rod) and Forensic Investigator are all INCREDIBLY powerful abilities. Why was Sensor unrestricted when most of the mafia's roles were restricted?
Between Hammerer (which is negative utility) / Watcher + Lightning Rod / Sensor the game was basically "solved" after Day 1 even without DD's role ever coming into play. I don't really think that mafia is a game that should be "solved" so easily (Duon would have found it very hard to win???). Even with a solid 5/21 players I felt mafia were underpowered in comparison with very weak night powers. Voltz' faction on the other hand I felt always had a chance if he could have pulled off some of the broken faction-changing plans but needed to kill Blaze night 4.
I don't really feel as if role madness has been run well on this website so far so would suggest not running them before gaining more experience as a game host.
02/16/2019 05:21:45
If Duon won't play if he's not a vengeful jester then... don't put him in the game. DON'T create the role and assign it to him - non-random role assignments are a big no-no and has happened in two of Rhyno's games now.
The set-up needed a bit more review beforehand to set out how the roles would function. I shouldn't be dead and then be asked "what happens if a mason gets vanillarised", this should be established beforehand.
Also feel that there should have been more checks for potentially ABSURDLY broken combinations, including faction-changing Innocent Child / death-confirmed Mason / unlimited-shot Governor. Luckily none of this came into play. I'm not sure why Invisi was told the results of his vanillarisation actions and surprised town didn't ask him why either.
I also feel as though town had too many incredibly strong power roles. Out of the thirteen townies, the only negative utility was Extra's Princess but even that only activated from lynching and it's hard to get a mason lynched. Governor SHOULD be neutral-at-worst utility but JEANS goofed. Sensor, Watcher (especially in a game with Lightning Rod) and Forensic Investigator are all INCREDIBLY powerful abilities. Why was Sensor unrestricted when most of the mafia's roles were restricted?
Between Hammerer (which is negative utility) / Watcher + Lightning Rod / Sensor the game was basically "solved" after Day 1 even without DD's role ever coming into play. I don't really think that mafia is a game that should be "solved" so easily (Duon would have found it very hard to win???). Even with a solid 5/21 players I felt mafia were underpowered in comparison with very weak night powers. Voltz' faction on the other hand I felt always had a chance if he could have pulled off some of the broken faction-changing plans but needed to kill Blaze night 4.
I don't really feel as if role madness has been run well on this website so far so would suggest not running them before gaining more experience as a game host.
02/16/2019 05:21:45
To be fair, three of the mafia were dead by like day 4 which is what led to a mass role claim.
If the mafia didn't die so early then the game likely would have been very different. Town weren't even looking at Insie until you called it out so realistically it's your fault Dean : p
02/16/2019 05:43:40
If the mafia didn't die so early then the game likely would have been very different. Town weren't even looking at Insie until you called it out so realistically it's your fault Dean : p
02/16/2019 05:43:40
I really wanted the ironic blaze got killed by arso
02/16/2019 05:45:59
02/16/2019 05:45:59
In case I'm sounding too critical here are some things that I liked:
I thought that Janitor + Coroner + Forensic Investigator + limited reveals was an interesting theme if an odd choice for a Smash Bros.-themed game
Day 1 was good
Thought that this was the best JEANS (apart from the horrible decision to save Insie) and a few others have played
And some Interestings:
Why did Laggy watch Aero night 3?
Why did Blaze block me night 1 instead of Insie?
Both these plays worked well for town but I'm not sure of the reasoning behind them.
I thought the flavour text didn't incorporate the Smash theme much.
DD's a bad person "oh is it nighttime?"
Sign-ups should be closed earlier
I think the thread header should be decluttered; a mod should take the first post of the thread and shift some of the information there
02/16/2019 06:08:00
I thought that Janitor + Coroner + Forensic Investigator + limited reveals was an interesting theme if an odd choice for a Smash Bros.-themed game
Day 1 was good
Thought that this was the best JEANS (apart from the horrible decision to save Insie) and a few others have played
And some Interestings:
Why did Laggy watch Aero night 3?
Why did Blaze block me night 1 instead of Insie?
Both these plays worked well for town but I'm not sure of the reasoning behind them.
I thought the flavour text didn't incorporate the Smash theme much.
DD's a bad person "oh is it nighttime?"
Sign-ups should be closed earlier
I think the thread header should be decluttered; a mod should take the first post of the thread and shift some of the information there
02/16/2019 06:08:00
We had no suspicion of insie n1
02/16/2019 06:12:38
02/16/2019 06:12:38
Blaze said:Who is “we”? I’d think you’d be in the minority here.
We had no suspicion of insie n1
Bijou said:If he didn’t die day 1 he was going to die day 2. It was an obvious scumslip.
To be fair, three of the mafia were dead by like day 4 which is what led to a mass role claim.
If the mafia didn't die so early then the game likely would have been very different. Town weren't even looking at Insie until you called it out so realistically it's your fault Dean : p
Every game that has stacked town power roles like this has turned out very similarly. This isn’t a coincidence.
02/16/2019 08:03:06
Why would he die day two? All you had to do was make sure the hammerer was on the vote train every time and you could have hid the presence of the hammerer until late game.
Could have pulled it out as a surprise tactic later on, might have been an interesting play lol.
I think in games with power roles you need to defend your mafia team otherwise you'll get rolled.
In terms of powerful town power roles the only two that were very strong were Sensor and Governer which can easily be fixed by making them x shot.
Watcher was strong this game, but could have easily been misled. Let's say Boozer stealth killed Aero and Jon happened to motivate him that night. Aero would have died and it'd look like Jon did it. There were plenty of stealth kills in the game so this could have easily occurred.
Blaze was actually made to look like the Arsonist because of this and possibly could have died.
Motivater and roleblock were only strong when town was in a position to role claim. Otherwise both of these powers could have easily benefitted anti town players too.
Town also had no Cops or doctors. The only close thing was Aero's firefighter and a couple of jack of all trades style powers that had conditions to work properly.
02/16/2019 09:00:06
Could have pulled it out as a surprise tactic later on, might have been an interesting play lol.
I think in games with power roles you need to defend your mafia team otherwise you'll get rolled.
In terms of powerful town power roles the only two that were very strong were Sensor and Governer which can easily be fixed by making them x shot.
Watcher was strong this game, but could have easily been misled. Let's say Boozer stealth killed Aero and Jon happened to motivate him that night. Aero would have died and it'd look like Jon did it. There were plenty of stealth kills in the game so this could have easily occurred.
Blaze was actually made to look like the Arsonist because of this and possibly could have died.
Motivater and roleblock were only strong when town was in a position to role claim. Otherwise both of these powers could have easily benefitted anti town players too.
Town also had no Cops or doctors. The only close thing was Aero's firefighter and a couple of jack of all trades style powers that had conditions to work properly.
02/16/2019 09:00:06
So I was on holidays in Japan pretty much this entire game.
After the first week, people were basically not playing the game so I stopped checking the thread every time I got on a train.
I originally was going to vote Insie at l-3 or so to hide hammerer, but then he got lynched in between when I checked the thread that afternoon =(
Game was over after that
02/16/2019 10:49:57
After the first week, people were basically not playing the game so I stopped checking the thread every time I got on a train.
I originally was going to vote Insie at l-3 or so to hide hammerer, but then he got lynched in between when I checked the thread that afternoon =(
Game was over after that
02/16/2019 10:49:57
Generally a set-up like Cop + Doctor and everyone else vanilla is considered reasonably balanced. All-vanilla and nightless games have also been run and seen a good amount of success for both factions.
Town in this game had:
Two masons
Maribro's MUP
MrL's lightning rod
Aero's Innocent child
Aero's firefighter
Laggy's Watcher
DD's Forensic Investigator
Blaze's Roleblock
JEANS's Governor
Bijou's Bookie
JonCheee's motivator
Exist's Sensor
Windkeeper0's Virgin
All these roles if played even somewhat smartly are neutral utility AT THE VERY WORST (some of these are extremely strong)
Coroner and Nexus are whatever and Princess is negative utility but unlikely to be enacted.
If asa hid his hammerer, then Mafia had:
2-shot janitor (not useful)
Roleblocker (good)
1-shot ninja with a voting restriction (...)
A player with 1-shot immunity to kills, cop investigates (which there were few of), and his teammate's vanillarise (fine)
An odd-day vanillariser that didn't know who his teammates were
Town is SO MUCH stronger than mafia in this set-up compared to the more basic setups. The main thing in mafia's favour is a decently sized team (ignoring third parties it's five mafiosi vs. 13 townies), but town has no reason to have such a dominant advantage at night time.
I think the two games we've hosted with a setup most similar to this is Aero and Ryan's Sun and Moon (landslide victory for town) and Maribro's Users of Qld Smash (town won despite getting outplayed the whole game).
Here's an example set-up from Mafiascum (which checks setups for balance beforehand pretty rigorously) with similar specs to our own and had town win: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=6879738#p6879738
You can see that the town is much weaker and the mafia are much stronger and town still managed to win.
Insie was going to die because even if asa had hid his hammerer powers why would Insie even bring up hammerer in the first place? It's not a role we'd know of beforehand and he's not just going to flick through roles on the Wiki one day and arbitrarily go "hEY GUYS WATCH OUT FOR POTENTIAL HAMMERERS". Hey asa when's the next game.
02/16/2019 11:48:33
Town in this game had:
Two masons
Maribro's MUP
MrL's lightning rod
Aero's Innocent child
Aero's firefighter
Laggy's Watcher
DD's Forensic Investigator
Blaze's Roleblock
JEANS's Governor
Bijou's Bookie
JonCheee's motivator
Exist's Sensor
Windkeeper0's Virgin
All these roles if played even somewhat smartly are neutral utility AT THE VERY WORST (some of these are extremely strong)
Coroner and Nexus are whatever and Princess is negative utility but unlikely to be enacted.
If asa hid his hammerer, then Mafia had:
2-shot janitor (not useful)
Roleblocker (good)
1-shot ninja with a voting restriction (...)
A player with 1-shot immunity to kills, cop investigates (which there were few of), and his teammate's vanillarise (fine)
An odd-day vanillariser that didn't know who his teammates were
Town is SO MUCH stronger than mafia in this set-up compared to the more basic setups. The main thing in mafia's favour is a decently sized team (ignoring third parties it's five mafiosi vs. 13 townies), but town has no reason to have such a dominant advantage at night time.
I think the two games we've hosted with a setup most similar to this is Aero and Ryan's Sun and Moon (landslide victory for town) and Maribro's Users of Qld Smash (town won despite getting outplayed the whole game).
Here's an example set-up from Mafiascum (which checks setups for balance beforehand pretty rigorously) with similar specs to our own and had town win: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=6879738#p6879738
You can see that the town is much weaker and the mafia are much stronger and town still managed to win.
Insie was going to die because even if asa had hid his hammerer powers why would Insie even bring up hammerer in the first place? It's not a role we'd know of beforehand and he's not just going to flick through roles on the Wiki one day and arbitrarily go "hEY GUYS WATCH OUT FOR POTENTIAL HAMMERERS". Hey asa when's the next game.
02/16/2019 11:48:33
The main thing I learned from this game is hammerer is a role that's just waiting to be killed and that unrestricted sensor is extremely broken. Turns out, being able to constantly analyse the lynch train allows you to mathematically find the scum at 0 risk, funny that!
And role madness tends to be less fun in practice than on paper.
I still have a World-of-Light themed game idea in my pocket, but apparently everyone's saying Asa is hosting the next one so I can put it away for now?
02/16/2019 12:08:49
And role madness tends to be less fun in practice than on paper.
I still have a World-of-Light themed game idea in my pocket, but apparently everyone's saying Asa is hosting the next one so I can put it away for now?
02/16/2019 12:08:49
Tier list:
A: Windkeeper, Bijou, Aero
B: Exist, Blaze, JonCheee, Asa, Laggy, Boozer
C: Dean, Atyeo, Mr L, Voltz
D: JEANS
Mr L tier: DD
E: Duon, Glace, Insie
Didn't get to play: Extra, Maribro
Win condition changed: Invisi
02/17/2019 00:36:07
A: Windkeeper, Bijou, Aero
B: Exist, Blaze, JonCheee, Asa, Laggy, Boozer
C: Dean, Atyeo, Mr L, Voltz
D: JEANS
Mr L tier: DD
E: Duon, Glace, Insie
Didn't get to play: Extra, Maribro
Win condition changed: Invisi
02/17/2019 00:36:07
oh its over, cool. i was out all day so i havent checked since i voted.
town was pretty overhauled with power roles, sometimes i felt like i didnt even need to do anything.
also felt like janitor was rather pointless in limited-death reveal type things.
02/16/2019 15:35:23
town was pretty overhauled with power roles, sometimes i felt like i didnt even need to do anything.
also felt like janitor was rather pointless in limited-death reveal type things.
02/16/2019 15:35:23
Wow Aero, putting me lower than JEANS actually makes me really sad...
02/17/2019 10:00:34
02/17/2019 10:00:34
DD said:hold up the night for 3 days for you to inspect mr l's body more
Wow Aero, putting me lower than JEANS actually makes me really sad...
02/17/2019 10:16:07