Super Smash Bros. 4 tier list discussion

mines more like (not ordered) plus or minus a billion

A Tier Lucas!


if hammer is dense with 9s
B/C Tier

[/quote]

SHould be removed from game:
and mii fighters

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05/02/2015 15:25:42

I like Eltons tier list. All u other guys suck. heheh!

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05/02/2015 15:40:09

http://imgur.com/IuQNawl

This is my list. Discuss.

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06/02/2015 05:17:01

Jezmo said:
http://imgur.com/IuQNawl

This is my list. Discuss.

Wii fit trainer only in the bottom 20?!?!?! What is this?!

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06/02/2015 05:57:05

I think Jezmo has placed Falco too lower. Must be a Melee Falco player thing.

So I saw Abadango's tier list and all I could think was Aero would be impressed.

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06/02/2015 08:36:47

Jezmo said:
http://imgur.com/IuQNawl

This is my list. Discuss.

Oh Luigi is top 3? Do you play the same game as I do?

Haha, but seriously:

- Captain Falcon is a tier too high, his recovery is bad and he doesn't have many approach options. He also gets combo'd like crazy. So many uptilts and up airs.

- Why is Lucario so high up in Strong Tier? He isn't that good.

- Olimar, Mii Brawler and Toon Link are too low -- Also why is Toon Link a tier lower than Link? That doesn't make sense to me.
Olimar is like 2 tiers too low. Play him. His smash attacks like no lag.

- Meta Knight is underrated and should move up to Solid tier. He's fast, got a good recovery and has kill moves. He lacks approach options though.

- ROB should also move up to Solid tier at least. He has good recovery, kill throws and gyro is annoying.

- Wario is apparently really good in Japan but I'll leave him where he is until I see more of him.

- Falco isn't THAT bad

Otherwise good list.

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06/02/2015 08:50:14

Jezmo said:
http://imgur.com/IuQNawl

This is my list. Discuss.

I love falcon as much as everyone else in QLD, but to put him above diddy and sonic is crazy speak.
I'd be taking him and mario out of OP, and putting them in strong. Also am I the only person who thinks ganon is great? He's slow moving but his attacks come out stupid fast, he can rack up damage just by staring down his opponent and reminding them how pathetically small they are.

If the top row is in no particular order well thats fine, but i'd also say pikachu is top 3. I also think marth and zelda don't deserve to be that low.

It's weird to see how different australias tier list is to americans, let alone how wacky the Japanese list is.

Oh well, tiers mean nothing to me. I only really take match-ups into consideration, or which characters have the coolest alt colours.

Don't judge me.

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06/02/2015 08:55:39

GIRL said:
Oh well, tiers mean nothing to me. I only really take match-ups into consideration, or which characters have the coolest alt colours.

The amount of joy I get when beating people with a "trash tier" character is really good though. I imagine you'd get that with lucina lelelele

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06/02/2015 09:13:55

GIRL plays Falcon haha.

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06/02/2015 09:15:55

Main thing that I disagree with Jezmo's list is the placement of Sonic (should be a tier higher) and Lucario (should be at least a tier lower).

With Shitashi's list, I disagree with the placement of Mario (a tier lower), Pikachu (should be way higher, at least 2 tiers higher) and Ness (a tier higher).

Aside from that, I can agree with the lists, with minor arguments about the placings of some characters on the higher tier (but that's going too much in the nitty gritty).

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06/02/2015 09:35:38

I shall try my best to explain the reasoning's behind some of these placings. I would also recommend everyone else go make their own list. It's fun. Just google "tier list maker" and go nuts.

@ClassicJono
Falcon and Luigi are both high for pretty similar reasons. The reason is; who is better at the moment? I don't think any character below them has a metagame that's as strong as theirs atm. There are characters with more potential, such as Pikachu, ZSS and Fox, but with extremely limited results and limited development of those characters, I think Falcon and Luigi are high.

Falcon is pretty easily combo'd, but he is also absurd with rage, and has an excellent neutral game once you learn to play it. His jab is also one of the top 3 jabs in the game, and is miles better than most of the cast. He doesn't have any "really" bad mu's, only being troubled by Luigi, Pikachu, Mario and Ness, and all of those are winnable. His recovery, while poor, is certainly passable if you use your 2'nd jump intelligently and are practiced in wall-teching.

Luigi has arguably the single best neutral game in the game. He can literally press b to win neutral against a very large portion of the cast. He is virtually impossible to combo (aside from two hit combos) for most of the cast since he can press A to buffer a jab or nair, beating virtually every follow-up. He has an absurd combo game, being able to combo a large section of the cast up into high percentages, and is only really let down by being heavily camped when behind, and by having a rather poor recovery.

Lucario gains access to the best projectile in the game once he takes a bit of damage, and is capable of killing people at 40% with moves that are not even slow. He is a character that you must approach at all times. If you win, you have to approach because aura sphere pressures too much, if you lose, you have to approach because you need to % lead. He has an almost ungimpable recovery if used correctly, and a few combo breakers. Has a fairly potent combo game at low percents as well, albeit he does very little damage when he has low %. One thing that makes Lucario so obscenely dangerous is that he is likely the only character who is always, literally always, in the game. If he is at kill percent, so are you.

Mii Brawler is only strong with customs, and my tier list is based on no customs. He has almost no viable kill moves without customs.

Olimar, while being a cheeky counterpick to a few high tier characters, is quite weak. Once you know how to maneuver around him, he just can't cover all his weak points. He is arguably better than where he is placed on this list, but I can't see him as more than a gimmick character at this stage in his metagame. Simply has too many weaknesses.

Link has vastly better kill potential than (and abuses rage much better than) Toon Link. Link is a hugely underrated character who does very well against most of the top tiers. Diddy, Rosalina and even Falcon. Has a solid camping game with a lot of kill potential once you know his setups and can be very unpredictable.

Metaknight is a character that I cannot put into the same tier as Megaman, Wario and Peach. He has no approach options outside of dash attack or dash grab, which are both very linear, and dies extremely early. He certainly has some strengths, but the lag on his aerials is too heavy and outside of gimmicky, early upb kills, it's hard to find all that many strengths.

ROB looks like a weaker character than everyone above him, at the moment. I do feel, however, that his metagame could grow and allow him to abuse the strengths that he does have. He has a good camping game, solid kill options, and decent OOS options. He is however, rather predictable and doesn't have a reliable combo breaker. Other camping characters above him can do what he does better, and other characters typically have better frames imo.

Falco is garbage. Should probably be lower. Utterly trash character. Has a few gimmicks but ultimately has virtually no moves. Dtilt and Fsmash are O.K. Uses rage decently but this character is complete trash.

@GIRL
Diddy and Sonic are both HEAVILY overrated atm. They both have huge problems killing since their nerfs. Sonic can be extremely annoying because he is in complete control when it comes to the pace of the game, but ultimately his kill and approach options are extremely predictable. Much of the same is true for Diddy. Banana>Fsmash is virtually his only kill option, which is easily avoidable. Outside of that, you're basically left with Utilt? and Bair. His neutral game is outstanding but his combo game and kill potential (while still having a fairly weak recovery) really keep him down. Killing people at 160% is just too inconsistent when rage exists.

Zelda isn't a character. If she doesn't cheese you with UPB, she can't do anything. She doesn't have any moves. Neutral B is her best move.

Mario is absurd. He combos most of the cast to around 80%, and can net very early kills. Fsmash and Usmash are great moves are having a horizontal hitbox on your spike is really interesting. He also has a solid projectile in a game where they basically don't exist. He doesn't have issues killing, he breaks combos, he gimps and recovers fine, he has insane aerial mobility and he is a combo machine all while erring on the side of being heavy. What exactly about this character is so bad they he shouldn't be top tier?

Aaaaaaaand that's all I've got. If you read all of that, I'm sorry. Anyway, those are my reasons. I look forward to reading yours *Skype cat image*

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06/02/2015 09:56:20

ClassicJono said:
GIRL plays Falcon haha.

mat7772 said:

GIRL said:
Oh well, tiers mean nothing to me. I only really take match-ups into consideration, or which characters have the coolest alt colours.

The amount of joy I get when beating people with a "trash tier" character is really good though. I imagine you'd get that with lucina lelelele

I mostly play lucina, cause i don't play many matches that aren't online, and she just handles better. But i was always under the impression that she was really good :o

Also classicjono are you going to smashbox ? Wait why is mario a bad match-up for falcon, i've always enjoyed that match up. And seen mario as baby falcon. And even then i'd put the sheik match up being worse than the merio brethers.

I don't know, i don't get this game. I just press A and hope for the best.

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06/02/2015 11:07:56

Sheik definitely is bad for Falcon, that MU just slipped my mind.

Mario does really well v Falcon imo. Mario breaks combos comfortably and his small hurtbox makes it hard for Falcon to get in. Because he is a heavy fast-faller, Mario can combo him for basically like 60 or more percent. It's pretty nuts.

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06/02/2015 11:17:22

I decided to take a different route with making a tier list and create a solo viability tier list. How I figure this differs from an ordinary tier list is a character that has 50-50 amazing and terrible match-ups will rank lower than a character that has a slight disadvantage in all match-ups

A - Perfectly viable to solo main.
E.g. - I have yet to find a Sheik main who has a secondary
B - Viable to solo, some match-ups may be bad, or even a lot unfavourable, but can be won with skill
E.g. - Pit doesn't excel against many characters, but he isn't a terrible choice against anybody either
C - Barely viable to solo, they have notable polarising match-ups
E.g. - Lobbiers of nerfing A tier
D - Should be used as a secondary, they have strong issues with some of the above
E.g. - It's easier to use an A tier than play some match-ups
E - Niche use. Amazing understanding required you plan on using them exclusively
E.g. - Making it into top 8 earns you a cult following

Of course this is all opinion. Thoughts?

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06/02/2015 11:28:31

What "polarizing matchup" does either Villager or Wario have...?

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06/02/2015 11:29:49

I also can't think of bad match ups for villager or wario. Even peach is pretty dang versatile with the cast.

I also have no idea why people shit on the heavies. I love DK, and find he does ok against anybody who isn't a wall of projectiles. I haven't played much ganon in ssb4, but i know he has the potential to turn a match around pretty quickly.

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06/02/2015 11:34:42

Wario - Villager can take Wario's bike, Sheik can wall Wario out, Capitain falcon/Mario can juggle Wario
Villager - Mega-man shuts down Villager's projectiles, some fast characters such as Sheik and Fox can get in Villager's face easily.
Of course this is all subjective, I can't speak for Villager but I have yet to take a game from Villyness' Villager with Wario

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06/02/2015 11:38:44

Omta (my friend) plays wario, and our fights go pretty even when im falcon. Wario has incredible gimp/edge guard game. As well as the ability to chomp almost all of his approaches, its tricky to catch wario off guard. And the longer you take to approach, the stronger his waft gets.

And i'd say megaman can shut down villagers fair, but that's about it, and considering villager can pocket megamans buzz saw thing AND his fsmash, i'd say it breaks pretty even.

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06/02/2015 11:42:22

WII FIT TRAINER IS IN B TIER HOLY SHIT
Please explain why
has there been like a breakthrough or something

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06/02/2015 11:42:39

mat7772 said:
WII FIT TRAINER IS IN B TIER HOLY SHIT
Please explain why
has there been like a breakthrough or something

Yes, luminescent. He's probably my favourite local player to watch.
He also told me that WFT does great against falcon, which is good because it means he can beat 80% of Qld.

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06/02/2015 11:44:24

The Wario - Falcon/Mario match-up is odd. As much as Falcon/Mario juggles Wario and how badly jab wrecks him, Wario can very easily gimp Falcon by wafting his recovery, so the match-up may not be so bad.
I was going by what Villyness told me about the match-up against Mega man. Apparently metal blade goes through gyroid, crash bomb blows up on contact with tree and gyroid and pellets mess with approach options.
I haven't thought of WFT struggling in any match-ups except Villager being able to take away their ball

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06/02/2015 11:58:28

Fox loses to, not kidding, virtually every single A tier.

Would not recommend solo-maining Diddy or Fox and maybe Luigi, but that's just my opinion. Villager seems pretty heavily underrated there, too.

Cool way of doing a tier list, though.

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06/02/2015 12:10:10

I made some alterations - ironic that i dropped my secondary yet I claimed Wario had polarising match-ups haha. I agree with your opinions Jezmo, those three have some match-ups that are better handled with other characters.

Polarising isn't a very good word as not many match-ups are as bad as they were in Brawl with chain grabs. Anything above E I consider solo viable with varying degrees of difficulty.

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06/02/2015 12:54:23

I have never seen a good peach, any suggestions?

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06/02/2015 13:00:42

Not to discredit Australia's peach players - No footage has been uploaded, but I have played Renagadez and Mask1n and their Peach skill was very good. You can find videos of international Peach use on the Peach board on smashboards. I'm personally a fan of Kie - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDl01VoVtuI

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06/02/2015 13:26:55