Aerodrome's Guidance - Smash Tutoring from Beginner to Intermediate Levels!

I'm about to open a room up man. Where's the Down-b at man?

---

01/21/2015 03:16:14

Maribro said:
Where's the Down-b at man?

I like to use good moves.

---

01/21/2015 03:21:20

There it is! The Pac-Man auto-win button. Stage spiking Luma has made me happier beyond what should be possible That stage can get horribly campy. Good job I had the percentage lead though ;)

---

01/21/2015 03:46:01

You didnt for a while, and then I derped.

---

01/21/2015 03:46:27

Sheik is nasty on that stage, wow. Good games man, thanks for that.

---

01/21/2015 03:52:02

No problem, you seemed to get better at the matchup towards the end there.

---

01/21/2015 03:53:42

You play a lot differently to my training partner. You go aerially a lot more and don't use down-b anywhere near as much. Took me a while to get used to a Rosa floating around every which way.

---

01/21/2015 04:01:05

I go aerial with every character

including Little Mac

---

01/21/2015 04:02:16

Nair suicides for days.

---

01/21/2015 04:02:55

*shamelessly butting in*

Hi guys,

Heya Aerodrome, I've heard about you online. Good to meet you!

Just some quick advice: if you're playing Rosalina against Pac-man and aren't using down-b, you're missing out on a mountain of laughs and ways to mess with Pac. For some examples:

Using Gravitational Pull on a thrown or fallen fruit will steal/nullify it so you can pick it up yourself. If you don't have Luma, you can pick up the fruit and camp the stage until Luma is back, and there's not much Pac can do about it. Or you can simply attack Pac with just Luma while playing keep-away with his fruit for laughs.

If going for up-air juggles against Pac, bait out the hydrant, down-b, then just go for the juggles anyway.

Grav Pull will tear away Pac's Power Pellets, which is not only annoying for him because he can't control the direct he travels in, but it can result in potential KOs if Pac is travelling towards the side of the stage or at a downwards trajectory.


With all that being said, Pac is very capable of killing Luma easily and applying pressure, so caution still needs to be applied when facing one who knows the MU well.

---

01/21/2015 04:19:44

Ah, you must be Maribro's training partner(?)

Yes, I didn't realise until I tried it that Gravitational Pull ruins Side B and Hydrant.

I think it would be a difficult matchup for Pacman if Rosalina had more offensive based special moves like Sheik.

I don't think stealing the fruit and camping with it is worth it.

---

01/21/2015 04:24:09

Fruit camping and down-bing hydrant ruins any kind of approach I can do and also stops me from attacking Luma at all. If you use Luma side-b, I basically can't do anything at all and lose.

And yeah, this is my training partner.

---

01/21/2015 04:27:57

Maribro said:
Fruit camping and down-bing hydrant ruins any kind of approach I can do and also stops me from attacking Luma at all. If you use Luma side-b, I basically can't do anything at all and lose.

Luma Side B is not a very good move.

I mean, it's an OK move, but I do struggle to see how it walls out every single approach Pacman has.

Even characters like Ganondorf should be able to get around Side B, and Pacman has far better tools than that guy.

---

01/21/2015 04:34:20

Not when you can just down-b them away. If you keep luma by your side while holding fruit, you can shield any aerial attempt and grab me, you can down-b hydrant and side-b a grounded approach. Anything I do is punishable unless I can bait out a commitment and hope I can punish in time. Rosalina and Luma having my fruit is an easy 90-10 matchup if you are in the lead. You can make 0 commitment and be healthily in the lead with not a single worry.

Oh and did you know you can tilt and Smash while holding fruit?

Just imagine that for a second.

---

01/21/2015 04:38:20

You can't grab while holding fruit.

Also you can only use forward tilt afaik while holding fruit.

---

01/21/2015 04:49:16

Aerodrome said:
You can't grab while holding fruit.

Also you can only use forward tilt afaik while holding fruit.

Derp RE grabs

If you have C-stick assigned to smash attacks, you need to hold a somehow (usually hold as you pick up the item) and then crouch and then push c-stick forward. If you don't want it fully charged, let go of a. It's a matchup where literally every single move Rosalina has is entirely designed to shut him down (or it feels like it at least). Her recovery makes gimping hard, side-b keeps us out of attack range especially with fruit, down-b is basically an auto win button, her spammable and high range smash attacks make any kind of approach dangerous (especially at higher percents) and Luma acts as a shield from our projectiles in some instances.

---

01/21/2015 05:02:43

mmmmmm

Still, holding fruit cuts down your options by about 80%, you can't aerial, you can't grab, you can barely ftilt and supposedly (sounds awkward to do tbh) smash attack.

Regarding the 90-10 matchup, this might sound rude, but no, Rosalina vs Pacman is NOT a 90-10 matchup. It's not 80-20 either. Or 70-30.

Disadvantaged? Sure. Unwinnable? No.

I doubt you've even played a true 90-10 matchup. That goes primarily to things like Sheik/Fox vs Kirby in Melee, or Zelda/Ganondorf vs MK in Brawl, which is nothing like Rosalina vs Pacman because Pacman actually has moves and hitboxes.

Gimping? Everyone aside from Mac is hard to gimp.

Rosalina Side B is not a good move, it's why you don't see good players use it often, and when it does get used, it's only in positions where it won't be punished. If you shield Rosalina Side B, you punish her.

Regarding smash attacks, only dsmash is really that spammable, and it does like, 7%. so

---

01/21/2015 05:15:44

Aerodrome said:
mmmmmm

Still, holding fruit cuts down your options by about 80%, you can't aerial, you can't grab, you can barely ftilt and supposedly (sounds awkward to do tbh) smash attack.

Regarding the 90-10 matchup, this might sound rude, but no, Rosalina vs Pacman is NOT a 90-10 matchup. It's not 80-20 either. Or 70-30.

Disadvantaged? Sure. Unwinnable? No.

I doubt you've even played a true 90-10 matchup. That goes primarily to things like Sheik/Fox vs Kirby in Melee, or Zelda/Ganondorf vs MK in Brawl, which is nothing like Rosalina vs Pacman because Pacman actually has moves and hitboxes.

Gimping? Everyone aside from Mac is hard to gimp.

Rosalina Side B is not a good move, it's why you don't see good players use it often, and when it does get used, it's only in positions where it won't be punished. If you shield Rosalina Side B, you punish her.

Regarding smash attacks, only dsmash is really that spammable, and it does like, 7%. so

Z-drop item catch nair could work, but I see your point about cutting down 80% of options.

I don't think you understood my point, if Rosalina and Luma is in the lead and holding fruit, it's a 90/10 matchup. Don't believe me? Play as Pac and find out for yourself how hopeless it is. If you are behind or Luma isn't there, I totally agree, holding fruit is not smart.

Yeah I've played bad matchups before. My training partner for PM/Melee used to be a Marth main (he has since moved on to Fox) and I play G&W. If you don't believe that is a 70/30 MU minimum, go and tell that to the G&W boards and you will be laughed away. I know what it feels like to be trying twice as hard as my opponent, be playing pretty much perfectly and either barely win or lose. Rosalina and Luma is easily a 70/30 MU. I don't mean to sound rude either, but I don't think you have enough experience in this MU to know (the fact I had to tell you to use down-b kinda proves my point).

Pac has good gimping tools and I can gimp people pretty well but we will leave it at that because this is specific to Rosalina and Luma.

Okay with what? I'm pretty sure side-b is quick enough and disjointed enough to prevent me from punishing if you have my fruit. I lose all ranged options I have to deal with it safely, my grab is horrible, Nair has short range, up-b is useless if you space it right and UpSmash won't work. It's not a great option when Pac has his fruit, but when you have my fruit, side-b is all you really need.

FSmash spaced properly and with Luma is not punishable because I lack range. I could use BF sure, but what if you read it and just down-b? Then that's good game.

Tl;dr Find a Rosalina with a similar skill level to your Pac, make sure they understand down-b wins the MU on it's own and then maybe you will understand the pain of this Matchup.

If you want to continue this discussion, let's move it somewhere else.

Also, would it be possible to give me some feedback on our games today please?

---

01/21/2015 05:53:33

Aero tomorrow can I play against you with my wii fit trainer? I love her and she is definitely going to become a main, but I need some help. thanks :)

---

01/22/2015 01:29:28

Alright, but keep in mind that Wii Fit Trainer is quite a difficult character to play because of her extremely short range.

---

01/22/2015 02:07:08

But wii fit trainer is fun to play as :(

---

01/22/2015 02:30:02

That's fine, if you enjoy playing her, then play her.

---

01/22/2015 02:31:00

I've got to say, people spout of "90-10 MU" a lot. I'm extremely skeptical about that. That is pretty much reserved for Fox vs a few characters and Melee, and Dedede vs characters like DK in Brawl where he has an infinite. Most low tiers against MK manage 70-30 or 80-20 unless their name is Link which is would be 90-10 imo.

Wolf gets absolutely hammered by D3 in Brawl (no pun intended) and that's only 70-30.

Maybe you're right about those numbers, but comparing that to a MU where a grab simply puts on about 150% or whatever it is (D3 v DK/Samus), and he's insanely hard to kill for them, just doesn't seem right.

---

01/22/2015 03:24:59

Jezmo said:
I've got to say, people spout of "90-10 MU" a lot. I'm extremely skeptical about that. That is pretty much reserved for Fox vs a few characters and Melee, and Dedede vs characters like DK in Brawl where he has an infinite. Most low tiers against MK manage 70-30 or 80-20 unless their name is Link which is would be 90-10 imo.

Wolf gets absolutely hammered by D3 in Brawl (no pun intended) and that's only 70-30.

Maybe you're right about those numbers, but comparing that to a MU where a grab simply puts on about 150% or whatever it is (D3 v DK/Samus), and he's insanely hard to kill for them, just doesn't seem right.

Okay, maybe 90-10 is an exaggeration but until you guys are in a situation like that, how can you possibly know what it's like?

Once again, it only becomes 90-10 under very specific circumstances, but once it happens, it is very much game over. Those circumstances once again are:
1) Be in the lead
2) Luma is alive
3) Rosalina is holding the fruit

Taking away BF removes Pac-Man's only reliable and unpredictable way of taking out Luma. With Luma around, Rosalina can play easy keep away with her superior run speed, down-b takes away hydrant, side-b prevents any approach Pac can make because he has no range (BF is gone remember) and heck, Ftilt could be used too if you really want to. My point is, once those 3 boxes are ticked, Rosalina no longer has to make ANY commitment. Pac has to do 100% of the hard work and hope for a huge mistake from the Rosalina player.

Honestly guys, I understand that she doesn't have an infinite chain grab or a 0-death combo or something else stupid like that, but it cannot be underestimated the power of having to make 0 commitments in anyway at all and having an answer to everything your opponent throws at you.

If you guys want to experience it, play as Pac against me, suicide first stock and then let me hold your fruit. I'm no Rosa expert, but I am sure you will understand just how disgusting the MU gets when Rosalina has your fruit in the lead.

---

01/22/2015 03:43:32

I UNDERSTAND WHAT I NEED TO DO AGAINST PAC'S NOW

---

01/22/2015 06:36:33