mat7772 said:
I UNDERSTAND WHAT I NEED TO DO AGAINST PAC'S NOW
Woops, now the enemy knows our biggest weakness :(
01/22/2015 06:47:15
Woops, now the enemy knows our biggest weakness :(
01/22/2015 06:47:15
This doesn't apply to my Pac-Man,
as I beat his (Exmatica or w/e his gamer tag is) Rosa with pac-man, once. I'll try get some more games of this though. Maribo seems to be making a bigger deal of this than it is, but maybe he'll gain a lot of leveling up out of this.
I also plan on beating his Rosa with Rosa (haven't played this yet)
01/22/2015 07:00:06
as I beat his (Exmatica or w/e his gamer tag is) Rosa with pac-man, once. I'll try get some more games of this though. Maribo seems to be making a bigger deal of this than it is, but maybe he'll gain a lot of leveling up out of this.
I also plan on beating his Rosa with Rosa (haven't played this yet)
01/22/2015 07:00:06
mat7772 said:
I UNDERSTAND WHAT I NEED TO DO AGAINST PAC'S NOW
Stealing Pac's fruit and bolting will never get old for me.
01/22/2015 07:34:28
eltoNNNNNN said:
This doesn't apply to my Pac-Man,
as I beat his (Exmatica or w/e his gamer tag is) Rosa with pac-man, once. I'll try get some more games of this though. Maribo seems to be making a bigger deal of this than it is, but maybe he'll gain a lot of leveling up out of this.
I also plan on beating his Rosa with Rosa (haven't played this yet)
I'm pretty sure the entirety of the Pac community agrees this is our worst matchup and until you end up with a deficit and Rosalina running around with your fruit in her hand then you won't understand the total and utter dominance she has over Pac.
01/22/2015 09:58:42
Alright, I'm going to be as simple as possible regarding this.
First of all, your arguments are quite flawed. I want to paraphrase what your argument is right now and respond to them this way:
It's a 90-10 matchup
There are no 90-10 matchups in this entire game.
No, Rosalina stole my fruit! Now it's a 90-10 matchup because I don't have a projectile!
Again, no. This logic would mean characters like Zelda, Ganondorf, Ike etc all now have 90-10 matchups with Rosalina.
And why wouldn't they? Rosalina doesn't even need to steal a projectile from any of those characters, which means she's not limited by holding this WORTHLESS fruit. As I said before, there is literally nothing Rosalina gains by stealing Pacman's fruit. She can't do anything with it. I've already told you that the fruit cuts her options down to 10% than if she didn't have the fruit. Here's what she can do while holding the fruit:
1) Throw the fruit.
2) ..............?
90-10 means there's literally NOTHING you can do, like you get CG'd to death, or they have something that's a OKHO on you. Rosalina doesn't have these things.
Rosalina Side B! Rosalina Side B!
The move is really bad. If you shield it while Luma is near Rosalina, you should be able to make a sandwich, watch a movie, take a shower, have a nap, eat the sandwich you made, then you can probably punish with your Wi-Fi grab. I'm actually not kidding.
1) Incredibly slow start up
2) If Luma flinches, Rosalina stands there flailing her wand around for 8 minutes
3) If it hits a shield, you can punish with whatever move you want.
The move is so bad, that most players forget it exists. I had to actually explain to Jezmo what the move did before he remembered what move I was talking about.
Pacman is forced to approach when Rosalina has the percent or stock lead
Congratulations, you've just described something that's completely universal. This is NOT Pacman specific. If your opponent has the percent lead, they have to approach if there's a time limit. Yes, you have to approach even Zelda and Ganondorf if they have the percent or stock lead.
Without the percent lead, neither character has to approach, but Pacman can still chuck fruit at her and there's nothing she can do about it but down b and throw it back.
I mean, what answer does Rosalina even have to Trampoline? When she approaches, use the trampoline, watch her jump over it and take 8 years to get back to the ground and then punish her landing. It's fairly easy.
Today I'm playing Cybo at 2:30 his time, and mat7772 at some stage today (not sure of the time?)
I'm going to have a nap for a while. See you guys soon!
01/23/2015 00:28:56
First of all, your arguments are quite flawed. I want to paraphrase what your argument is right now and respond to them this way:
It's a 90-10 matchup
There are no 90-10 matchups in this entire game.
No, Rosalina stole my fruit! Now it's a 90-10 matchup because I don't have a projectile!
Again, no. This logic would mean characters like Zelda, Ganondorf, Ike etc all now have 90-10 matchups with Rosalina.
And why wouldn't they? Rosalina doesn't even need to steal a projectile from any of those characters, which means she's not limited by holding this WORTHLESS fruit. As I said before, there is literally nothing Rosalina gains by stealing Pacman's fruit. She can't do anything with it. I've already told you that the fruit cuts her options down to 10% than if she didn't have the fruit. Here's what she can do while holding the fruit:
1) Throw the fruit.
2) ..............?
90-10 means there's literally NOTHING you can do, like you get CG'd to death, or they have something that's a OKHO on you. Rosalina doesn't have these things.
Rosalina Side B! Rosalina Side B!
The move is really bad. If you shield it while Luma is near Rosalina, you should be able to make a sandwich, watch a movie, take a shower, have a nap, eat the sandwich you made, then you can probably punish with your Wi-Fi grab. I'm actually not kidding.
1) Incredibly slow start up
2) If Luma flinches, Rosalina stands there flailing her wand around for 8 minutes
3) If it hits a shield, you can punish with whatever move you want.
The move is so bad, that most players forget it exists. I had to actually explain to Jezmo what the move did before he remembered what move I was talking about.
Pacman is forced to approach when Rosalina has the percent or stock lead
Congratulations, you've just described something that's completely universal. This is NOT Pacman specific. If your opponent has the percent lead, they have to approach if there's a time limit. Yes, you have to approach even Zelda and Ganondorf if they have the percent or stock lead.
Without the percent lead, neither character has to approach, but Pacman can still chuck fruit at her and there's nothing she can do about it but down b and throw it back.
I mean, what answer does Rosalina even have to Trampoline? When she approaches, use the trampoline, watch her jump over it and take 8 years to get back to the ground and then punish her landing. It's fairly easy.
Today I'm playing Cybo at 2:30 his time, and mat7772 at some stage today (not sure of the time?)
I'm going to have a nap for a while. See you guys soon!
01/23/2015 00:28:56
How about around 1pm? I feel like 1pm is pushing it :P It would be easier for me if we did it tomorrow actually. How about 1pm tomorrow
01/23/2015 02:02:31
01/23/2015 02:02:31
So how about Rosalina vs Ness, is that a 90-10? Ness has no recovery if Rosalina is on the same side of the stage. Her down B steals the PK thunder from a fair distance and she can go deeper and still get back.
Though I doubt even this matchup is 90-10. 70-30 maybe? (I've never experinced this from the Ness side, so it might not be as bad as it seems)
01/23/2015 02:44:43
Though I doubt even this matchup is 90-10. 70-30 maybe? (I've never experinced this from the Ness side, so it might not be as bad as it seems)
01/23/2015 02:44:43
Aerodrome said:
I mean, what answer does Rosalina even have to Trampoline? When she approaches, use the trampoline, watch her jump over it and take 8 years to get back to the ground and then punish her landing. It's fairly easy.
Aerodrome speaks the truth. Elton likes to do that when retreating across the stage and there's not much a floaty character can do about it.
01/23/2015 02:48:21
I know I need to use tramp more but what good does it do if I'm trying to regain the lead without my fruit. You even directly mention it as a punish.
Look, I know I can't convince you guys anymore but seriously go and see how it feels to have a deficit and lose the only thing that makes comebacks in this MU possible.
As I have said time and time again, it is the combination of those three things that makes this MU extremely hard to deal with NOT individually. I'm more than aware of the fact that I need to approach in a deficit and yadda yadda. Yeah it's not a zero to death CG wombo combo but Pac man is entirely helpless to whatever Rosalina wants to do.
01/23/2015 02:58:48
Look, I know I can't convince you guys anymore but seriously go and see how it feels to have a deficit and lose the only thing that makes comebacks in this MU possible.
As I have said time and time again, it is the combination of those three things that makes this MU extremely hard to deal with NOT individually. I'm more than aware of the fact that I need to approach in a deficit and yadda yadda. Yeah it's not a zero to death CG wombo combo but Pac man is entirely helpless to whatever Rosalina wants to do.
01/23/2015 02:58:48
Wii U: Xaytonn
Room's open Aero, ready when you are :)
01/23/2015 03:30:52
01/23/2015 03:30:52
mat7772 said:1PM tomorrow. I think I'll be at work at that time.
How about around 1pm? I feel like 1pm is pushing it :P It would be easier for me if we did it tomorrow actually. How about 1pm tomorrow
Seracain said:I've tried this and sometimes Ness just gets hit by the PK thunder which lets him do it again. It feels really inconsistent.
So how about Rosalina vs Ness, is that a 90-10? Ness has no recovery if Rosalina is on the same side of the stage. Her down B steals the PK thunder from a fair distance and she can go deeper and still get back.
Though I doubt even this matchup is 90-10. 70-30 maybe? (I've never experinced this from the Ness side, so it might not be as bad as it seems)
Plus Ness has all the tools onstage to beat Rosalina anyway.
01/23/2015 03:42:38
Wii U: Xaytonn
I think I need to stop being so liberal with my down A lol
01/23/2015 03:42:45
01/23/2015 03:42:45
What time would best suit you? Idc cause I'm available probably at anytime
01/23/2015 03:43:59
01/23/2015 03:43:59
Cybo said:Yes that move is not very good.
I think I need to stop being so liberal with my down A lol
mat7772 said:Maybe about 4 or 5 PM tomorrow?
What time would best suit you? Idc cause I'm available probably at anytime
01/23/2015 04:18:29
Sounds good. See you then :3
01/23/2015 04:23:35
01/23/2015 04:23:35
Wii U: Xaytonn
LOL I completely forgot Link can block projectiles standing still
01/23/2015 04:27:32
01/23/2015 04:27:32
Aerodrome-sama said:
Seracain the Stalwart said:I've tried this and sometimes Ness just gets hit by the PK thunder which lets him do it again. It feels really inconsistent.
So how about Rosalina vs Ness, is that a 90-10? Ness has no recovery if Rosalina is on the same side of the stage. Her down B steals the PK thunder from a fair distance and she can go deeper and still get back.
Though I doubt even this matchup is 90-10. 70-30 maybe? (I've never experinced this from the Ness side, so it might not be as bad as it seems)
Plus Ness has all the tools onstage to beat Rosalina anyway.
Yeah, I agree actually. So many people tell me it's a hard impossible matchup for Ness, and I don't play Ness. But my impression is that he's strong in the non ledge portion and it's not as given as people make out that she'll gimp him with the down B. So I don't think the match up is that terrible.
Everyone's disagreed with me so far though, so I've awondered if I was missing something.
01/23/2015 04:29:40
Wii U: Xaytonn
Dat final footstool lol
01/23/2015 04:50:36
01/23/2015 04:50:36
Post incoming, @Cybo Alright @Cybo buddy, GGs
Here's some things I've noticed:
Good stuff on circle camping on battlefield, you might want to play Kaion's Megaman since he's the master of circle camp.
But there's quite a bit of bad stuff, your keep away game is good and quite strong, but:
Zero usage of aerials except dair: This isn't very good, aerial attacks are staple to Toon Link's offensive game. By not using aerials, you're missing out on a damage racker (bair, nair), a KO option (fair, uair) and something to stop people who just sit in the air.
You're not KO'ing fast enough: You're getting me consistently to 150% but you're not really capitalizing on my mistakes to get the KO. If you noticed in the Toon Link dittos we played, over the 10 stocks I think I inflicted about 400% less damage than you did, that's like, 40% less damage a stock. It's important to secure kills as fast as you can rather than just throwing projectiles at your problems and hoping they die at 400% to a boomerang.
Rolling: This isn't as problematic as the others because you weren't rolling into me, but rather away, but you might have noticed that it's still punishable when I dash grabbed.
For now, I definitely recommend incorporating jabs, and aerials into how you play.
There are some other problems, such as your spacing being pretty bad, but we can tackle this next time.
01/23/2015 05:03:21
Here's some things I've noticed:
Good stuff on circle camping on battlefield, you might want to play Kaion's Megaman since he's the master of circle camp.
But there's quite a bit of bad stuff, your keep away game is good and quite strong, but:
Zero usage of aerials except dair: This isn't very good, aerial attacks are staple to Toon Link's offensive game. By not using aerials, you're missing out on a damage racker (bair, nair), a KO option (fair, uair) and something to stop people who just sit in the air.
You're not KO'ing fast enough: You're getting me consistently to 150% but you're not really capitalizing on my mistakes to get the KO. If you noticed in the Toon Link dittos we played, over the 10 stocks I think I inflicted about 400% less damage than you did, that's like, 40% less damage a stock. It's important to secure kills as fast as you can rather than just throwing projectiles at your problems and hoping they die at 400% to a boomerang.
Rolling: This isn't as problematic as the others because you weren't rolling into me, but rather away, but you might have noticed that it's still punishable when I dash grabbed.
For now, I definitely recommend incorporating jabs, and aerials into how you play.
There are some other problems, such as your spacing being pretty bad, but we can tackle this next time.
01/23/2015 05:03:21
Wii U: Xaytonn
Really appreciate you taking the time to help newbies like me. :) Good points, especially the first one. I didn't realize until you pointed it out. I guess part of reason is not being confident with my aerials hit range so I tend to avoid it. I think I especially need to learn to incorporate short-hopping in actual games.
Rolling is a really bad habit I'm trying to get rid off definitely. All the years of pretty much playing only against bots is biting me in the rear.
What do you mean by spacing though? Like not knowing my strike range very well or my horribad recovery?
Thanks again man. Also is it cool if we arrange another session for next week? Same time, any day except wednesday is good with me.
01/23/2015 05:30:44
Rolling is a really bad habit I'm trying to get rid off definitely. All the years of pretty much playing only against bots is biting me in the rear.
What do you mean by spacing though? Like not knowing my strike range very well or my horribad recovery?
Thanks again man. Also is it cool if we arrange another session for next week? Same time, any day except wednesday is good with me.
01/23/2015 05:30:44
Aero would you be up for some matches right now? I got like an hour, possibly an hour and a half.
01/23/2015 05:59:19
01/23/2015 05:59:19
mat7772 said:Alright, sounds good.
Aero would you be up for some matches right now? I got like an hour, possibly an hour and a half.
Cybo I have an image for you i made, which I will post shortly.
01/23/2015 06:13:01
I'll set up then. Get ready to salute the sun <3 Made a room AERO YOU CAN'T DO THAT THAT'S ILLEGAL RAWR
01/23/2015 06:30:56
01/23/2015 06:30:56
Basically spacing for marth involves keeping people at the green distance as much as they can. Blue is "ok" but not preferred. Red is not where Marth wants the opponent to be because they will be shooting him or camping him
Read this: http://www.ssbwiki.com/Spacing
for a better explaination
mat7772 said:
AERO YOU CAN'T DO THAT THAT'S ILLEGAL RAWR
IM SORRY
01/23/2015 06:32:11
THAT SPIKE
HAS MADE MY DAY
01/23/2015 06:48:47
HAS MADE MY DAY
01/23/2015 06:48:47