What
Less is stages is less depth.
There's literally no way to spin that, with less stages there's less variation in gameplay that can arise.
Of course we don't just add in every stage because they're all unique, because most stages in the game have serious issues (hazards, circle camping, walk-offs, etc.), but if a stage doesn't have those issues it should be legal.
Hence the crux of my argument is, there's no proven issues with Duck Hunt so it should be legal.
9 years ago
Ghostbone said:
Well until you justify it there's no reason to even post about it.
You got me, what I meant was that even if I justified it, you're just going to post a huge wall of text with many words but little meaning which I'm not going to bother responding to.
9 years ago
Variety doesn't mean depth. Melee has one of the smallest competitively played casts and 6 stages and it's still the deepest smash game to date.
9 years ago
9 years ago
@Aero
As much as I hate responding to bait, if you're not going to contribute to discussion and instead deliberately try to derail it, why are you even here.
I mean variety doesn't equal depth.
But more variety is correlated with more depth.
Melee would undoubtedly have more depth if mid and low tiers were a bit better, and it had a few more good stages to play on. (if you've ever played 20XX, there are a bunch of neutral layout stages which would be amazing legal stages in melee)
Like the lack of a 7th legal stage is actually a massive issue with Melee that makes Bo5 sets a lot less interesting since Marth always gets FD, fox always gets Stadium, etc.
9 years ago
As much as I hate responding to bait, if you're not going to contribute to discussion and instead deliberately try to derail it, why are you even here.
Zivhayr said:
Variety doesn't mean depth. Melee has one of the smallest competitively played casts and 6 stages and it's still the deepest smash game to date.
I mean variety doesn't equal depth.
But more variety is correlated with more depth.
Melee would undoubtedly have more depth if mid and low tiers were a bit better, and it had a few more good stages to play on. (if you've ever played 20XX, there are a bunch of neutral layout stages which would be amazing legal stages in melee)
Like the lack of a 7th legal stage is actually a massive issue with Melee that makes Bo5 sets a lot less interesting since Marth always gets FD, fox always gets Stadium, etc.
9 years ago
Ok. I'll leave for now.
9 years ago
9 years ago
You and I timed out on Battlefield, Shitashi.
9 years ago
9 years ago
I don't think the discussion about time outs will go anywhere. It's clear that duck hunt has a good platform layout for camping in certain match ups but if players want to play like this they can obviously do it elsewhere too.
9 years ago
9 years ago
the only person in this thread derailing discussion is ghosts constant rudeness honestly
9 years ago
9 years ago
Scott said:
the only person in this thread derailing discussion is ghosts constant rudeness honestly
I've seen some low quality bait before, but this..
9 years ago
Scott said:
the only person in this thread derailing discussion is ghosts constant rudeness honestly
I think you're looking at ghosts arguments with bias because there have a been a few people arguing against duck hunt that are being just as aggressive as him.
9 years ago
Apologies if I'm included in that group. I've been posting a lot in the thread but it was not my intent to appear aggressive toward others.
9 years ago
9 years ago
I honestly believe that Dreamland has equivalent "jank" to Duck Hunt and Lylat probably has even more so. But this is not enough for these stages to warrant complete exclusion. I have heard numerous people say "I am taking you to Lylat so I hope you will possibly get "Lylated" so I might win" to players higher in skill in comparison to themselves, even though the majority of cases it is the lower skilled players that get "Lylated" themselves. I have never heard anyone until today say "I am taking you to Duck Hunt so I can possibly win through jank".
Sure the dog may be annoying at times for people, but it is more disheartening seeing someone get "Pineappled" or "Lylatted" than them not paying attention to the dog and having their positioning altered. A similar "randomness" to platforms can be seen on TnC where people can be "stretchered". At least you can tell when and where the dog is going to appear.
Get grabbed on the Smashville platform close to the side of the stage? This possibly results in death. This is why it is sometimes referred to a pseudo walk-off stage. Get stage spiked by BF from a ledge get up attack. Does this warrant removal also?
So we are left with FD that has the least amount of "jank" possible. But then we have all of the Sonic and Mac players laughing because they get to go on a stage they absolutely shine on. If only we could ban that stage so that they weren't at a considerable advantage...
Let's be honest. A Jigglypuff could circle camp a Ganondorf or a Mac on all stages except for FD if they really wanted to. This is not a flaw in the design of stages though, but more so a flaw in the design of the characters. If your character struggles with high aerial mobility characters, ban Duck Hunt. Much to the same point of if your opponent uses a character that is fantastic on FD, then ban FD.
9 years ago
Sure the dog may be annoying at times for people, but it is more disheartening seeing someone get "Pineappled" or "Lylatted" than them not paying attention to the dog and having their positioning altered. A similar "randomness" to platforms can be seen on TnC where people can be "stretchered". At least you can tell when and where the dog is going to appear.
Get grabbed on the Smashville platform close to the side of the stage? This possibly results in death. This is why it is sometimes referred to a pseudo walk-off stage. Get stage spiked by BF from a ledge get up attack. Does this warrant removal also?
So we are left with FD that has the least amount of "jank" possible. But then we have all of the Sonic and Mac players laughing because they get to go on a stage they absolutely shine on. If only we could ban that stage so that they weren't at a considerable advantage...
Let's be honest. A Jigglypuff could circle camp a Ganondorf or a Mac on all stages except for FD if they really wanted to. This is not a flaw in the design of stages though, but more so a flaw in the design of the characters. If your character struggles with high aerial mobility characters, ban Duck Hunt. Much to the same point of if your opponent uses a character that is fantastic on FD, then ban FD.
9 years ago
ghost buddy you need to chill out, if you think YOU get frustrated when you see what you think are people being dumb, think about how I feel, you still haven't come very far from your old retarded theory crafting days, and you calling people uneducated is so ironic I actually want to reach through your computer screen and slap you.
You need to stop jumping to insane conclusions like for instance if anyone says anything you disagree with, they are lazy, inexperienced and uneducated about the game. Like... you cant just think of something that might be a fact and then call it absolute fact, thats not how it works, what do you know about x players experiences and work ethic? Making claims based on very little information is a bad idea.
You have made so many crazy claims based on your own very limited experience for the last few years that I'm surprised you are now trying to champion the important of experience. If you manage to keep an open mind this trip to America should be good for you and might get rid of a few of the more questionable opinions you have. Like this one for instance...
I dunno where you get your 'facts' from, but you need to recheck them buddy, the stage is banned for numerous reasons (that means more than one just fyi), the hazards being one of them.
You're a great player, but sorry to say this buddy you are also an idiot when it comes to this stuff and you place waaaay too much faith in your own opinion (especially since you are still very much a big fish in a small pond), which leads to the above problems.
9 years ago
You need to stop jumping to insane conclusions like for instance if anyone says anything you disagree with, they are lazy, inexperienced and uneducated about the game. Like... you cant just think of something that might be a fact and then call it absolute fact, thats not how it works, what do you know about x players experiences and work ethic? Making claims based on very little information is a bad idea.
You have made so many crazy claims based on your own very limited experience for the last few years that I'm surprised you are now trying to champion the important of experience. If you manage to keep an open mind this trip to America should be good for you and might get rid of a few of the more questionable opinions you have. Like this one for instance...
Ghostbone said:
Halberd isn't banned for hazards, it's banned because of the ceiling.
I dunno where you get your 'facts' from, but you need to recheck them buddy, the stage is banned for numerous reasons (that means more than one just fyi), the hazards being one of them.
You're a great player, but sorry to say this buddy you are also an idiot when it comes to this stuff and you place waaaay too much faith in your own opinion (especially since you are still very much a big fish in a small pond), which leads to the above problems.
9 years ago
Ah I've missed rule set discussions-
Oh wait no I haven't.
9 years ago
Oh wait no I haven't.
9 years ago
The real issue is that Googers isn't on the senate.
9 years ago
9 years ago
Someone make a strawpoll please.
9 years ago
9 years ago
http://strawpoll.me/6262195
9 years ago
9 years ago
I meant about duck hunts legality.
9 years ago
9 years ago
Because a popularity poll is a great way to decide legal stages
9 years ago
9 years ago
Duck Hunt
- There is a dog that alters positioning perhaps once or twice a match at worst (That is set and not random, like Randall the Cloud from Melee Yoshi's Story I believe)
- There is a tree and a bush that is "hard to see". If you have played on this map more than like 3 times you should know there is a tree and a bush there by now.
- Ducks can alter hitboxes slightly, however Smashville and T&C ALSO have a balloon that can mess with attacks too, yet those stages are argued to be some of the most neutral.
Other than that, I see no direct damage/knockback hazards, a fair blast zone, and the slight chance of hitboxes/positioning being altered. (Dreamland wind can also do this)
Also, the tree can be used for 'camping'.
Well, so can most platforms in the game (Shoutouts to Mechakoopa on Smashville platform against Shitashi)
For real guys, the map is not as bad as you think it is.
Just because you may have lost a few games on it does not mean the stage is 'BS' or whatever you want to call it.
We could all see the ACTUAL problems with Halberd, but I can't see much that is exploitable (Or many different factors compared to more netural stages) about Duck Hunt.
I'm ready to be shot down for this, but in all honesty, I don't care.
Please enjoy my view on Duck Hunt.
Xoxo - Googer.
P.S I am not arguing or anything with anyone about this. That is my view on the stage and I am not saying much or anything else about it.
9 years ago
- There is a dog that alters positioning perhaps once or twice a match at worst (That is set and not random, like Randall the Cloud from Melee Yoshi's Story I believe)
- There is a tree and a bush that is "hard to see". If you have played on this map more than like 3 times you should know there is a tree and a bush there by now.
- Ducks can alter hitboxes slightly, however Smashville and T&C ALSO have a balloon that can mess with attacks too, yet those stages are argued to be some of the most neutral.
Other than that, I see no direct damage/knockback hazards, a fair blast zone, and the slight chance of hitboxes/positioning being altered. (Dreamland wind can also do this)
Also, the tree can be used for 'camping'.
Well, so can most platforms in the game (Shoutouts to Mechakoopa on Smashville platform against Shitashi)
For real guys, the map is not as bad as you think it is.
Just because you may have lost a few games on it does not mean the stage is 'BS' or whatever you want to call it.
We could all see the ACTUAL problems with Halberd, but I can't see much that is exploitable (Or many different factors compared to more netural stages) about Duck Hunt.
I'm ready to be shot down for this, but in all honesty, I don't care.
Please enjoy my view on Duck Hunt.
Xoxo - Googer.
P.S I am not arguing or anything with anyone about this. That is my view on the stage and I am not saying much or anything else about it.
9 years ago
Its best to gather as much data as you can before you make a decision, I have foxy labbing out the effects of duckhunts no Z-axis shit right now so I'd suggest you wait for him to drop that knowledge bomb before anyone makes a decisions because informed decisions are better than decisions :)
Also knowing foxy he'll probably invent like 7 new link AT's during his labbing. Also your strawpoll sucks, I cant vote on it more than once :'<
9 years ago
Also knowing foxy he'll probably invent like 7 new link AT's during his labbing. Also your strawpoll sucks, I cant vote on it more than once :'<
9 years ago
Doesn't Mewtwo have a hurtbox on his tail? It only really comes into play on DH due to the Z-Axis stuff.
As for the map itself, it's cool. If we get another legal map I wouldn't mind dropping it or Lylat.
9 years ago
As for the map itself, it's cool. If we get another legal map I wouldn't mind dropping it or Lylat.
9 years ago
Flex said:
Because a popularity poll is a great way to decide legal stages
are you retarded?
actually don't answer that, lol
"After this trial, we will be gathering community feedback in order to guide future decisions. We are particularly looking for feedback on the legality of Duck Hunt, as this stage has been very contentious in senate discussions and opinions have been split basically 50/50. Watch this space towards the end of the trial, as we will be conducting some sort of survey which will be posted here."
^ from the OP
9 years ago
Aero and Atyeo, let's refrain from insulting other users as it doesn't add anything to the discussion. Specifically comments like this:
There's no need for this guys.
Also if you can't vote more than once on a straw poll then you're not doing it right. Maybe I should add a poll feature to this site so that we can settle this stuff once and for all.
9 years ago
You're a great player, but sorry to say this buddy you are also an idiot
I actually want to reach through your computer screen and slap you.
are you retarded?
There's no need for this guys.
Also if you can't vote more than once on a straw poll then you're not doing it right. Maybe I should add a poll feature to this site so that we can settle this stuff once and for all.
9 years ago
Having a poll now is worthless though
9 years ago
9 years ago